Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 02:20:22 -0500 Subject: SOMMS Digest - 30 Mar 1998 to 31 Mar 1998 There are 29 messages totalling 1060 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. The Day I Tried To Live (2) 2. Burden (4) 3. Burden on our list (2) 4. Just music 5. "You're words are like arrows..." (fwd) 6. new thread (fwd) 7. She's A Politician (3) 8. SG & Econoline Crush? Song shit... 9. The Day I Tried To Live (fwd) 10. Anyone Want To Try 11. Re[2]: news flash! 12. Anyone Want To Try "Burden..."? (3) 13. Las Vegas 14. more poetics 15. The Meaning of Burden in my Hand 16. Some pretty heavy discussions about lyrics, guys 17. why movies? 18. why movies? 19. Interpretations (2) To UNSUBSCRIBE from SOMMS, send email to LISTSERV@MITVMA.MIT.EDU with the following in the body of your message: SIGNOFF SOMMS ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 17:09:55 +1000 From: Greg Dunbar Subject: Re: The Day I Tried To Live >[] I'm sure Chris didn't write a song about stabbing and killing. That's like >Sepultura's job. Hey there, you're making it sound like Sepultura write songs advocating killing or something. I certainly hope that's not what you think. Maybe if you said that songs about stabbing and killing were the job of Cannibal Corpse or Pantera then fair enough, but please, no giving shit to Sepultura's lyrical content. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 03:03:32 -0500 From: jenny grover Subject: Re: Burden Wow, we have some active imaginations out there! No, I'm not saying that's a bad thing. Exercise is good for the brain. However, I think a lot of these songs are a lot simpler than what some of you have come up with. Notice I did not say simplistic. I think Chris's lyrical talent is his ability to use metaphorical language to express universals by evoking the appropriate emotion for the topic without being pedestrian. The risk incurred in this writing style is people not seeing the forest for the trees, so to speak, but that's not a problem if the writer and his audience enjoy the ambiguity and possibilities inherent in getting lost in the metaphor. Having said that, here's my take on BIMH: "Follow me into the desert, as thirsty as you are" I'm having a bad time of things, and it's probably going to get worse, but I know you can relate... "Crack a smile and cut your mouth" Smile, even if it's false and it hurts. We're going to pretend things aren't so bad after all. "and drown in alcohol." Let's just drink ourselves stupid to numb this. "'Cause down below the truth is lying beneath the river bed. So quench yourself and drink the water that flows below her head." There is something true and refreshing in this life, and it's her. "Oh, no. There she goes." but she's leaving me. "Out in the sunshine, the sun is mine" I'm exposed and alone, but on the other hand, I'm free. I still have myself. "I shot my love today. Would you cry for me? I lost my head again. Would you lie for me? Close your eyes and bow your head, I need a little sympathy." I screwed up (again) and ruined a relationship. But be a friend and try to sympathize with my side of things. "'Cause fear is strong and love's for everyone who isn't me." I'm afraid I may never have another chance at a relationship as good as this one was, the kind of love everyone else seems to be able to maintain. "Kill your health and kill yourself and kill everything you love. And if you live you can fall to pieces and suffer with my ghost." Misery loves company. Let's just be pessimistic, self-destructive, and wallow in our faults. "I left her in the sand, just a burden in my hand. I lost my head again. Would you cry for me?" I ditched her. I thought she was just dragging me down. But now I realize I was wrong, so pity me. "It's just a burden in my hand. It's just an anchor on my heart. It's just a tumor in my head, and I'm in the dark." I feel awful about it all, but I don't know what I can do about it now. So, maybe I should just try to get it out of my system and forget about it, move on. "So follow me into the desert as desp'rate as you are, where the moon is glued to a picture of heaven and all the little pigs have God." Life's a desert. The pretty ideas, the fairytales aren't real. They don't happen. But we can pretend they do if it makes us feel better for now. So, there you have it. My interpretation. Now, if I could just find that article where they make disparaging remarks about concept albums... Jen ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 03:15:22 -0600 From: Bill Flanders Subject: Re: Burden >So, there you have it. My interpretation. Now, if I could just find >that article where they make disparaging remarks about concept albums... > >Jen Nice jibe, Jen. But I was using the term in the loosest sense, and really just referring to the break between pre-badmotorfinger and post, with badmotorfinger having only a few songs with the introspection, and virtually none before that. At any rate, my point is that Chris' writing, in particular, tends to go through phases and that DOTU was a phase where very general, cross-cutting impacts are examined. Is that in dispute? Bill ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 06:07:44 -0500 From: boB Subject: Burden on our list my thoughts were provoked by the following sentence: > Kim said that they don't write cryptic lyrics yes. but it takes a man of pure genius to hide meanings behind lyrics which are so subtle that the guitar-playing songwriter (notice that "guitar player" is not appropriately meaningful) does not really notice. such a man is Chris Cornell this is definitely possible, though. it doesn't matter how smart the amazing man Kim Thayil is, either. it could still happen, I've had it happen with my friend who sings when we write non-demoed songs. anyways, some crazy ramblings to enlighten or en_dark_en your crazy day. or night Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 06:17:18 -0500 From: "Michelle A. Leco" Subject: Re: Burden on our list >yes. but it takes a man of pure genius to hide meanings behind lyrics >which are so subtle that the guitar-playing songwriter (notice that >"guitar player" is not appropriately meaningful) does not really >notice. such a man is Chris Cornell I won't argue with Chris being a "pure genius". However, I'm appalled by the Kim assumption. First of all, Kim probably knows Chris well enough to understand what he's writing about. After all, you don't work with someone for 12 years without learning something about the person! Second, Kim is intelligent enough to interpret the lyrics. Third, I don't think that Kim (or any of the guys for that matter) would willingly play music that he doesn't understand. Do you honestly think that the guys show each other the songs they wrote and they say "Uh, ok, cool." and blindly play it without even asking and discussing what it means to them? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 14:05:13 +0100 From: Guillaume PETETIN Subject: Just music > Music is a lot of things, but it is JUST music... as well as this > > thread is JUST nonsense. > > Point taken and agreed with. But music for some is like religion for some > others[ as ? said......."just Jesus"....(heh heh)] It may be JUST music for > some, but for others it is a way to feel and to deal with things. Music has > given me emotions that almost NOTHING else has been able to. ITs NOT JUST > music. Since this IS stupid, that's the last you'll hear from me on it :^ Same for me. I've been playing music for 8 years now. And SG is one of the majors shocks I received, musically speaking. Well, it's just a point of view. Like religion, it's easy to get people carried away. So music is emotions and etc... the same as everything is everything... Get the point?? I mean books are emotions and etc etc etc... Maybe some people even think TV is etc etc... PIF - we are the children of concrete and steel, everything is possible and nothing is real > > -Ugly Truth > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 14:11:30 +0100 From: Guillaume PETETIN Subject: "You're words are like arrows..." (fwd) > thru it all again, not knowing, deep down, if it's real or not. SO, to > get back to the point (sorry for the rambler), I don't think anyone has > the privelege to tell me or anyone else on the list how to interpret > Soundgarden, the best, most fuckimg amazing band ever. Sorry bout this, > I know it's a little late, I haven't checked my mail in three days. When > I read that "shit" post, I had to say something to defend my beliefs.... But do you have the right to tell anyone what to say or what not to say?? I think nobody told anyone to do something (shave their heads, join scietology ...) maube xcept U... We only express our opinion... If you cannot deal with it just retire from the material world :) PIF - every word I said, etc.. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 14:07:42 +0100 From: Guillaume PETETIN Subject: new thread (fwd) > that it went beyond the usual Led-Clones accusation and said that SG > were influenced by Kraut-Rock music, namely The Can, when they wrote > DOTU. I'm guessing the reviewer was talking about Applebite, Boot Camp, > 2) Does any of you know enough about Kraut-Rock (like The Can ;)) to say Well, I just listened to the remix/tribute album and there are some really good things on it. And some samples from the original made me wonder... BUT the Can & other s CD are overpriced... Give it a try anyway PIF ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 14:30:32 +0100 From: Guillaume PETETIN Subject: Re: She's A Politician > it's a valid point to say that coke gets alot of politicians in trouble, > but i'm still not convinced that that's what they were getting at.. > yeah it's simplistic.. shouldn't that make the "A broken mirror and > razor blade" line be about sharp = attitude? cos when i think of a razor > blade, i think.. sharp.. ouch.. hurt.. same with a *broken* mirror.. a > key tool in slitting of wrists.. ie. pain inflicted from this woman..her > manner and her words hurt.. > > hey maybe that's another edge to this... edge ? :) > look at all the verses.. they all mention things that could harm or > kill.. is it just a coincidence? would it be a comment on politicians > and maybe their stresses and their escape? > > "A broken mirror and razor blade" suicide > "she doesn't misabuse" where Abuse is the word i'm concentrating on. > "she'll get you on the ropes" and what can you do with a rope, hmm? > "she's got you all confused with her machine gun talk" gun.. get it? > i'll leave this at that.. heheh sorry if some of you are annoyed at > this.. i love the idea that people can get more than one meaning from a > song.. if anyone else has any theories, speak up! Well a broken mirror is the symbol of broken identity... PIF > > Koggy > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 14:35:11 +0100 From: Guillaume PETETIN Subject: SG & Econoline Crush? Song shit... > a song that I'd like to talk about, and I'd like some input...now the song is > The Day I Tried To Live..for > the newbies here...its on the SUPERUNKNOWN cd...just making sure > hehe...anyways...listening to > the song reminds me so much about the George Orwell books, Animal Farm and 1984. > Animal Farm > because of the "I wallowed in the blood and mud with all the other pigs" and > 1984 with the basic theme > of the song being freedom and being allowed to live free. I love the > totalitarismic concept of the song, > and i Hope that someone else here has also caught on to it... But in this song clearly injustice is caused by behaviour, not by "society" , and behaviour intrinsic from life... That's the difference with 1984 for me... I'll read Animal Farm this week and disagree with you :) PIF > > Well, off to the races.. > Dave > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 14:39:29 +0100 From: Guillaume PETETIN Subject: Re: She's A Politician > sharp as a razor blade.. that would be another reason for the first > line.. maybe it's a clever play on words.. they don't want to say it out > loud that she's a cokehead, so they didn't.. they used words that might > imply it, and also imply other things about her; her sharp wit, > bitchiness, attitude. > > O6z6z6y i get what you're saying about the first line being a pre-chorus > thing.. yes, maybe there isn't a pattern.. not alot of soundgarden stuff > has strict patterning in it.. hell, even the time signatures have no > strictness about them.. which is why i really like SG.. none of this > verse chorus verse shit.. :) > > and i like the idea that it was about susan too.. it shows that although > they're writing all this negative stuff about a woman, they really do > respect her for her power and attitude.. they're not sexist or > whatever.. (yeahhh Chris! heheh) > > i'd like to see what the article says, Geoff.. maybe it'll give a > definite theory about this song.. phew :) > > Koggy One of the many reasons I like SG is the often open lyrics with multiple explanations, and I'd just be surprised if a song was a clear description of sthing... But who knows??? and what does it change?? The meaning to words as to music is the one you put into it... PIF - I'm not a politician ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 14:49:32 +0100 From: Guillaume PETETIN Subject: The Day I Tried To Live (fwd) > he's practically killing himself and not giving anyone else the chance > to do it.. by letting them stretch = giving them a break, giving them > time to literally stretch, is he taking away what they want to do? the > way i understand it is he's doing something he shouldn't.. even if it's > harmful to him.. he's doing it because he shouldn't. I think stretch is very literrally... People with nothing better to do can torture other peolple, it's an age old sport, and stretch people's body to death is a common way to pass gently the weekend... At least it was :) Anyway, this verse would mean he indulge in the flow of feelings and impulses and doing nothing for others. PIF ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 05:28:27 PST From: The Koggle Subject: Re: Anyone Want To Try Hey All :) anyone else totally blown away by Ozzy's interp? although i'd like to say 'no way, that's just stupid' and shrug it off; it fits the lyrics perfectly! 10 points O6z6z6y! ..But.. in a realistic way, trying to see it the way Chris might have wrote it, i would understand it to be more like Jen's interpretation.. (although Michelle's ain't so bad either :)) How simple, but true.. it's like that quote for us not to think of everything in cryptic ways that Kim said.... every word they say is what they mean.. really ;) and Bill, maybe some of the words have a bit of depth to them.. i agree with that.. i don't think we can say, "alright, no songs with any depth at all, we can't look at them deeper cos we're not supposed to".. because each song is going to be different, regardless of a quote from Kim. He might have been talking about a particular song or an album (from my terrible memory i think it was about DOTU.. how ironic). i don't dispute the theory on the concept albums.. i have been thinking that for a long time now.. it seems fairly simple for me to see actually.. in what i thought was more 'passion' or 'dramatics' or even 'emotions', post-BMF (maybe even during BMF? what about Mind Riot? Any thoughts?) was actually a change in the topic of their inspiration.. think about the earlier albums.. alot of the songs seem to take someone elses work, or attitude and make light of it (off the top of my head; Big Dumb Sex, Power Trip, Fopp).. and here we go with Superunknown and Down On The Upside.. they're almost like a totally different band [reason for liking SG #4621] with a different sound.. songs inspired by personal incidents, an insight into their minds if you like.. Yes, Bill.. I agree with you! Now THIS i want to remember.. it's what i was trying to get at in a clumsier and lower vocabulary kinda way hehe <> AMEN JEN!!! :) :) anyway i know i didn't contribute much in this post but a little encouragement.. i'm just kind of happy that i could be a part of this actually.. the whole 'delving into it deeper' idea.. i'm so glad we're getting back into the swing of things :) okay i'm blabbering.. goodnight :) Kogg ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 09:28:26 -0500 From: Gabrielle Gerbino Subject: Re[2]: news flash! Uh.......don't you think the broken mirror and razor blade part is supposed to symbolize cocaine? That's always what I thouth it meant. I always thought the song had a satirical feel. Anyone else agree? ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: news flash! Author: The Koggle at aot-gateway Date: 3/28/98 1:16 AM >>guess whos sick and tired..... >>Jill >who isn't ?;) >New Damage Think about this SOMMSters.. if you're sick and tired of rumours, why not respond with a thoughful post stating why you are, or maybe just ignore them.. would that not be better?.. IMHO it would be better than more useless posts, over the top sarcasms, and snipes at other members of the list.. Thank you Kathie for your great post.. lately I've been rolling my eyes at every post i read and it's quite refreshing to find something that looks like it has taken some thought. I think that some of you should take other peoples opinions into consideration.. so you don't agree with what someone's said.. so what? you have your opinions, they have theirs. Music might be an important part of your life, you might have grown up listening to it and couldn't live without it. Great! Others might not have the same experience and they could get the same feelings from another outlet. Fantastic! it's not something that everyone has or should have. and we should all respect that. In an attempt to start a new thread, i want to talk about She's a Politician.. Originally i was negative towards this song, but listening to it closely and reading the lyrics, i'm not as sure as i had thought. Listening to it the first time, i was a little annoyed basically because it seemed dumb, the whole "she's a politician" phrase.. it's not something i would use to describe someone, and i would think of it as a slight insult.. The tempo and the whole feel of the song seemed too out of control.. all wrong.. but now that i think of it, wouldn't that be the most appropriate feel for this song? for me, it's about a guy who is overwhelmed by the intelligence, attitude, sassiness, power and authority oozing out of a woman.. check out the first verse A broken mirror and razor blade She's a politician Hot headed all the time She's a politician a broken mirror/razor blade would symbolise her sharp tongue and maybe those words were used in particular.. since the two items are used for personal hygiene.. not even really related, but they both fit into her description.. it's either very clever of them or really silly of me to look into it that deep.. hehe :) And of course "hot headed" is describing her attitude around him.. something i'm wondering about.. is she REALLY a politician? or is that just how she's been pigeonholed.. like: she's got all this power, so she's probably one of those office types. well that's my two cents on that and i hope i got you all thinking about it.. if you want to find the lyrics for it, go to http://www.sgi.net/cgi-bin/doms/soundgarden/lyr.cgi?ly=shesa Take Care SOMMSters.. Koggle ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 12:08:53 -0500 From: "Freer, Nicole A." Subject: Re: Anyone Want To Try "Burden..."? Bill wrote: > They said that yeah... but they also said that "mother" in "Hands all > Over" > refers to mother earth. > well, jeez, anyone who really didn't figure out that that's what the mother was in the lyrics really was blind. the whole thing dealt with environmental issues and the bad things we do to our "mother" therefore we're going to "kill her" someday if we're not careful. > However, I also don't agree that it's what they meant. Here is my > thesis: > Superunknown and Down on the Upside are both basically concept albums. > i don't see any type of "concept"ualizing in any of these albums. Look at DOTU... they follow Zero Chance up with Dusty. no concept there. As for SU, they have the desolate Fresh Tendrils preceded by a song about a motorcycle (kickstand)!! i've never considered these albums concepts, i don't think SG would purposly make a concept album...not their style, imho. > From that perspective, I think "Burden in my Hand" is about requesting > sympathy, even at the expense of bringing the person you're talking to > into > your misery: > where's Lance and his version of BIMH being about nuculear testing? that was a fucking cool interpretation... mind riot ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 09:26:23 -0800 From: Mark Miller Subject: Re: Las Vegas SOmeone asked about a the SOundgarden Guitar at the Hard Rock in Las Vegas. There is one in the gift shop. I think it was either purple or yellow. I think there was another one in the casino area attached to a pole, not on a wall. They are easy to find, the Hard Rock isnt that big. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 12:57:19 EST From: KAISERVRBL Subject: Re: Anyone Want To Try "Burden..."? In a message dated 3/30/98 10:12:55 AM, NF277679@WCUPA.EDU wrote: <> I'm sitting right here! Would you all like me to restate my thoughts on what I think it could be about based on the video? Lance ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 13:34:42 -0500 From: Jaime Gonzalez Subject: Re: She's A Politician Geoff is right about this song being about a women Kim met in a bar and they started taking about things which led to a discussion about politics.I remember reading this in some articles myself. I would like to discuss the music that goes with this song,but I'll have to do it later after i listen to it. Have not listened to this one in a while. One of the reasons I like this song is,because I know what the lyrics are about.The meaning behind the lyrics. Well,back to work. Gonz ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 15:19:28 -0500 From: El Conspiraco Subject: Burden I always though Burden In My Hand was Chris, or some dude, drinking, having a good time, and the chick he's with, doesn't wanna drink, so seeing how she "a burden in his hand", he goes off and kills her. And basically the rest of the song is just Chris making up to her what he did is wrong. Remember what Jen said, SG's lyric are not cryptic. To me, I just look at the lyrics and think about it a bit. Get in Chris's head...but Ozzy's could be right....I love that one..*G* Dave ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 15:50:42 -0500 From: jenny grover Subject: more poetics Here's another SG poem I wrote with Raine's formula: nuns snored as god arose. a sun gone under sea rose red, round, soared orange. dogs on guard ran on sod and dung. guns rang, rend anger undone, asunder reason goes under ground. dread's rod gores. dear ones groan. sudden arose on sand dunes an end. sang us a song, one sugar song. our urges rose grand. dear anger sang reason, rang around an orange sun. dogs run roads around us, drag guns under ground, snare our dread. dad's den goes undone. And here's my Hater poem, written in the same fashion: Hater heat, a hat art rat hear her heart rate eat her at tea ha ha ha ate her heart hear her tear a tear heat, a hat the rat Jen ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 15:07:43 -0600 From: Aladdin Hassanein Subject: The Meaning of Burden in my Hand Just look at the title of the song "Burden in My Hand". The "burden" is alcohol. The title gives an image of someone clutching a bottle or can of alcohol. The song is about the detrimental effects of alcoholism. "I shot my love today" does not refer to killing but to the physical abuse that many alcoholics give to their spouse when they come home drunk. It is like "shooting" your love because it causes physical pain as well as mental anguish. Also the lyrics "I need a little sympathy" and "would you cry for me" relate to the "alcholic" interpretation. In relationships where a person is an alcholic and beats there wife when drunk, a lot of times the wife might feel guilt of feel sorry for the man whom she feels is a victim of the alcohol and that the "alcohol" is making him beat her and that the alcholic has no choice. For "follow me into the desert as thirsty as you are", the desert symbolizes the barren and desolate world that alcholism leads to. "Left her in the sand" means that the alcoholic drags her into the barren world of alcholism but the spouse is there because she has a relationship with the alcoholic and she feels the detrimental effects but she isn't there because of her own alcholism. "Kill yourself and kill your health and kill everything you love" is part of the detrimental effects of alcoholism. It causes liver damage and hurts those around you like the spouse for instance. "And if you live you can fall to peaces and suffer with my ghost" This means that even if you are not brought into alcholism by the alcholic, you will still suffer mentally and if the alcholic dies, the spouse will suffer the mental anguish of losing a loved one. "It's just an anchor in my heart" refers to how the alcoholism is preventing him from loving his spouse and is making him hurt her instead "It's just an tumor in my head" refers to how the alcohol makes him not think clearly and affects the way he acts and will eventually kill him similar to a cancerous brain tumor. "Now I am in the dark" refers to how alcoholism is darkening his life. Note::::When I say "him" I am not referring to the narrator of the song which is an acoholic and not Chris. The song Kyle Petty, Son of Richard also shows how alcohol abuse can have a negative influence on someone. "Stomach burns of alcohol...I must have burned the bottle full...and you ain't got a chance in fucking hell tonight" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 16:43:10 -0600 From: Bill Flanders Subject: Re: Anyone Want To Try "Burden..."? At 12:08 PM 3/30/98 -0500, Freer, Nicole A. wrote: >Bill wrote: > >> They said that yeah... but they also said that "mother" in "Hands all >> Over" >> refers to mother earth. >> >well, jeez, anyone who really didn't figure out that that's what the >mother was in the lyrics really was blind. the whole thing dealt with >environmental issues and the bad things we do to our "mother" therefore >we're going to "kill her" someday if we're not careful. > >> However, I also don't agree that it's what they meant. Here is my >> thesis: >> Superunknown and Down on the Upside are both basically concept albums. >> >i don't see any type of "concept"ualizing in any of these albums. Look >at DOTU... they follow Zero Chance up with Dusty. no concept there. As >for SU, they have the desolate Fresh Tendrils preceded by a song about a >motorcycle (kickstand)!! i've never considered these albums concepts, i >don't think SG would purposly make a concept album...not their style, >imho. There are definately counter-examples to this, and their albums aren't intentionally this way, no, but rather the result of evolving writing interests. At any rate, I'm hesitant to prescribe many DOTU songs written by Chris to a particular incident, rather than a vague, emotional response to many situations. Pretty Noose, Boot Camp, Zero Chance, Blow Up the Outside World, have either been said in interviews to reflect that type of writing, or are apparent by the lyrics that they are about an abstract concept. I put BIMH in that same family for sure, and I think that too much is being read into it. Sometimes Chris "paints" with lyrics, and he's just describing many little stories/events relating to wanting sympathy, and seeing little hope. I just can't believe that it's about a child or something... more likely it's about any type of menacing guilt that can't be absolved, and results in utter hopelessness, and given in different, mildly related examples. Does anyone understand what I'm saying about the difference in the abstract meaning of Pretty Noose, Boot Camp, An Unkind, and the concrete meaning of Like Suicide / TDITTL / 4th of July, concept albums or no? Am I losing my mind? Bill ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 18:01:00 EST From: CTMc4 Subject: Re: The Day I Tried To Live I doubt it's meant to be taken quite so literally. i always figured it to be describing one of those days were you end up doing everything wrong to how you'd like to have done them. & at the end of the day finding yourself to be someone different than you thought you were. but, whatever. charlie sorry if this is a bit late. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 18:19:31 EST From: CTMc4 Subject: Re: Burden it seems to me this is about O.J. simpson. he lost his head and went looking for sympathy. something like that anyway. charlie ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 12:59:32 +1000 From: Chris Coyle Subject: Some pretty heavy discussions about lyrics, guys After being a slow, silent observer for one hell of a long time; This kind of talk about lyrics is the kind of thing I joined this mailing list for. And finally , after enduring for so long I have been able to read some good quality messages for once. Ones that made me think. ONES THAT WERE SCRIPTED WITH THOUGHT and not anger. Some of the intelligent responses and so on... Lead me to think that the real sg fans (of which I don't categorise myself within) really are quite a bit more individualised than other tribes of fans for other bands. Thus endeth the serious part. And continuing on from what someone else said, Nirvana sucks: Too much publicity, too few real hits. Too much airplay. Too many wannabe fans. Deprive other bands of much needed airplay. The above assumptions are valid when comparing N to sg. Coyle. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 20:29:26 PST From: The Koggle Subject: why movies? Sommsters check out the packaging and design of DOTU.. it's all with that same movie theme.. the cover is them standing on a stage w/ lights, the back cover is of a playbill thing.. the book witht the lyrics has rolls of film strewn in pretty ways and has those numbers in circles (sorry i'm not more specific about the names of things.. i'm a bit sick today and i wouldn't know the real names of them on a good day anyway) so what does this have to do with the album? and look at the videos.. Burden has them looking all actorish and arty striding across a desert and comes complete with that government conspiracy looking jet at the end.. Blow up the outside world is the whole torture scene, i think i recall someone saying it was like a Clockwork Orange? Although i've only seen one of the Pretty Noose videos only once or twice i remember it as a couple in a bedroom.. maybe it's a dramatic type of thing.. or a porn or what have you heheh but you get what i'm on about.. the theme of Film/Movies is obviously used in the production of DOTU.. would this have anything to do with what Bill suggests? it is about different and particular aspects of emotions and emotional struggles and choices.. actors play out parts with a whole range of emotions.. were soundgarden just experimenting with that part of it? does anyone have any ideas about this? I'm not sure if it's been talked about before, sorry if it has, i think it is really relative to what we're talking about at the moment.. Koggle ps. i will be using another email account from now on since my server has placed a couple of restrictions.. from now on you can mail me at gikk@logicworld.com.au .. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 23:52:59 EST From: SubPop77 Subject: Re: why movies? In a message dated 98-03-30 23:38:08 EST, you write: << check out the packaging and design of DOTU.. it's all with that same movie theme.. the cover is them standing on a stage w/ lights >> The way I always interpreted the cover of this album was: the four guys were standing at the wall of a parking garage looking across the street at a burning building that they had set on fire. This cover always seemed to startle me cause I never knew what it was suppose to mean, other album covers by soundgarden and other bands are easy to interpret or dont have any "hidden meaning." My $.02 -Nick ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 21:48:14 -0600 From: Kathie and David Subject: Interpretations Oh boy, I'm sorry I'm a bit late here, but I haven't been reading the list often enough - the weather here in Illinois has finally been nice enough to get out in the garden and I have SO much work to do, but anyway.... I don't know if this is what you were talking about Geoff, but I found a little blurb about She's a Politician in the Dec. 1991 Reflex mag (not on the site, I have it here). Its describing the song, which was one of the songs on the flexi-disc and says: "Chris Cornell notes that Soundgarden recorded so much material for new LP Badmotorfinger, a number of tracks - some of the band's faves, in fact - had to be left over for b-sides, and in this case, the REFLEX flexi-disc. Penned by Cornell, 'She's a Politician' is based on an incident involving 'Garden guitar maniac Kim Thayil. While the band was on tour with Danzig, Thayil met a woman in a bar. As Cornell recalls, 'It went from a discussion to a violent, bottle-throwing political argument.' A terse, brutal two minutes of intentional intensity, it'll wake even the drowsiest reader from sonic slumber." I have found that alot of times what the band *says* doesn't always mean its a fact. First of all there's that Seattle humor we've all come to know and love. And then there's the fact that Chris seems incredibly protective of his songs, as if telling what they mean to him would be exposing himself too completely. Personally I think She's a Politician could very well be about Susan. Just look at the similarities between being a manager and a politician. A manager is always "on", just like a politician, working the room, trying to sell the band, like a politician is trying to sell a platform. And we all know that Susan is a VERY strong woman. Maybe it wasn't just some stranger in a bar that Kim had this argument with; maybe it was Susan. And I remember reading somewhere once about how Chris found it hard when he would disagree with Susan about something, and agree with the other band members. As far as TDITTL, I disagree with those of you who see the first verse as meaning he woke up in a bad mood. To me I've always seen it as he woke up feeling pretty good, ready to go out and really give the world hell. And now, going back and reading the lyrics with what others have said in mind, I'm seeing something new. Maybe this day Chris was going to do the "star" thing. Maybe "I stole a thousand beggar's change and gave it to the rich" refers to selling records - taking our money and giving it to the record company. Maybe "I dangled from the power lines and let the martyrs stretch" refers to him feeling powerful and maybe lording it over those who had stood by him from before he got popular. In fact the "One more time around might do it" chorus is almost like a taunt, like one more album or one more tour might break it wide open for them. I think he's talking about greed, about buying into the hype, and then feeling like a hypocrite. This song always makes me sad. And the last part, if you listen to the song, doesn't go exactly like the lyrics on the lyric sheet. Where it says "And I learned that I was a liar just like you", that's not how it goes in the song. In the song he sings "And I learned that I was a liar" and then goes back to the chorus, and ends with "The day I tried to live, to live just like you." And that makes more sense. People had probably been telling him he should go for it and take advantage of being a rock start and when he did he felt awful, like he was wallowing "in the blood and mud with all the other pigs". Does anyone remember the Manson murders, where they wrote PIG on the walls in blood, meaning the rich and privileged? Anyway, I think the song is about a day he woke up and decided to just go for it, grab the gold ring or whatever, and ended up feeling defeated and hypocritical. Sorry this was so long, but I LOVE when we do interpretations! Kathie ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 23:02:18 -0600 From: Geoff Subject: Re: Interpretations I think that this is the exact quote I was talking about. All I could remember was that it was Chris recounting an incident between Kim and a woman. (way to go hippocampus!) I was pretty sure it involved throwing things. Anyway, there ya have it. Thanks Kathie. Geoff Kathie and David wrote: > I don't know if this is what you were talking about Geoff, but I found a > little blurb about She's a Politician in the Dec. 1991 Reflex mag (not on the > site, I have it here). Its describing the song, which was one of the songs on > the flexi-disc and says: > > "Chris Cornell notes that Soundgarden recorded so much material for new LP > Badmotorfinger, a number of tracks - some of the band's faves, in fact - had > to be left over for b-sides, and in this case, the REFLEX flexi-disc. Penned > by Cornell, 'She's a Politician' is based on an incident involving 'Garden > guitar maniac Kim Thayil. While the band was on tour with Danzig, Thayil met a > woman in a bar. As Cornell recalls, 'It went from a discussion to a violent, > bottle-throwing political argument.' > A terse, brutal two minutes of intentional intensity, it'll wake even the > drowsiest reader from sonic slumber." > Kathie ------------------------------ End of SOMMS Digest - 30 Mar 1998 to 31 Mar 1998 ************************************************